israel_palestine_debate [Rose City Iron Front]

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#	Proposed by Israel alliance	#	Proposed by Palestinian alliance
A-i	Israel is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people	A-p	Israel is a settler colonial project of one or more empires and/or international conspiracies.
B-i	The Jews, like every other nation, have a right of national self-determination in their homeland.	B-p	Jews in exile and diaspora must convert, assimilate, or remain in a dis-priveleged status of dhimmi or as a “witness people to the wrath and severity of God” (in the words of Augustine of Hippo)[citation needed]], or as stateless minority religion in secular post-christian societies that inherit this legacy.
C1-i	Palestine/Israel is the historic homeland of the Jews, from which they were exiled as a result of conquest and occupation by the Roman empire	C1-p	Jews have no history in the holy land, or else that historic connection has been severed by time and progress and is no longer relevant.
C2-i	The Roman empire conquered, occupied, and colonized Israel, and renamed it with the Greek word Palestine. Palestine has never had existence independent of Rome or other subsequent empires.	C2-p	Various responsa, but no serious counter-argument has been presented. The popular response is to deny that a Jewish state ever existed, ignore the texts, and attempt destruction of the archaelogical evidence. The Palestine tourist guidebook admits the Jewish Hasmonean history, but suggests that the polytheistic Greek Seleucid empire was justified in claiming Israel as Palestine, because the indigenous Maccabees were religious zealots who forcibly converted Jews to Judaism. Serious Arab and Islamic scholars usually stipulate to the proposition, or admit it by non-response.
D1-i	Arabs are indigenous to the Arabian peninsula. Arabs in Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, and Iraq are settlers who occupied and colonized those territories after conquest by Arab Islamic empires. Else they are natives who have been forcibly converted and assimilated to Arab Islamic monoculture, with small pockets of resistance and reslience by Christian, Jews, Samaritans, Yazidis, Druze and other religious minorities.	D1-p	Local Arabs having been settler colonists of Palestine for so many centuries, are now indigenous to Palestine.
D2-i	As the indigenous people of Roman/Palestinian occupied Israel, the Jews have a moral and political right to seek national liberation through the post-colonial, anti-imperial liberation	D2-p	Jews have no such right, because “the old has passed away and the new has come”. Judaism has been superseded and replaced by Christianity, and Jews must convert, assimilate, renounce the Sinai covenant, and eat the Easter ham. If they do not, they must disappear from history, and violence against them is justified. (the argument of “saints” Ambrose, Athanasius, John Chrysostom, Martin Luther.) Christianity having itself been superseded and replaced by either Islam, Enlightenment rationalism, or Marxist-Leninist materialism, Judaism is still replaced, and Jews must convert and assimilate to one or the other of these subsequent ideologies. A free and independent Palestine is necessary in order to secure the replacement and supercession, and to finally liberate the world from Judaism as foretold by these religious and ideological preceptors, to bring in a “new world order” and “new era for humanity”.
C3-i	Rome had no inherent moral or political right to occupy and colonize Israel, because might does not make right, and Rome's military power does not imply moral justice. As a colonial construct of the Graeco-Roman empires, Palestinian identity is inherently oppressive, white supremacist, and foreign to the land of Palestine/Israel itself. Resistance is justified when Israel is occupied.	C3-p	Rome had the right to occupy and colonize, because the Jews were in the midst of civil strife and infighting. Rome was bringing western civilization and progress. In like manner, a “free Palestine” would mean a new world order and a new era for humanity, and liberation of the world from Judaism.
E1-i	The JVP are no longer Jews, but are “cut off from the covenant”, as an incompatible alternate religion or political cult. Unlike Jeremiah they have rejected the Sinai covenant, but more like Christianity, Islam, Mormonism and others, they seek to merely culturally appropriate Jewish texts, rituals, and symbols and creatively redeploy them for anti-Jewish purposes of supercession and replacement. See also: who speaks for the jews.	E1-p	JVP represents an authentic Jewish non-zionism or anti-nationalism, like that of Jeremiah the prophet, or arguably like the historical Jesus (Joshua son of Miriam).
E1-i	Conversion and denial of the covenant is often coping mechanism to dealing with epistemic anti-Jewish violence and social pressure, or with the other personal problems that this engenders. As persons who have suffered from the Jew-hate that is systemic in the western tradition, JVP members deserve compassion. But as victim co-perpetrators of that Jew-hatred, the JVP now has characteristics of a hate group. Aimed at secular Arab supremacism instead of at white supremacism. Instead of militant Islam or Christianity, they seem to employ militant atheism, anarchism, queer liberation, and/or Marxist-Leninism, which are also incompatible with Judaism.	E1-p	The JVP such can represent a legitimate albeit minority Jewish political philosophy.

Sophistic refutations of anti-Israel formal fallacies of reasoning. The tendency of some anarchists, bolsheviks, and Palestinians to resort to these tactics is evidence of a more general condition of ignorance and intellectual corruption. We urge them instead to learn from the Jews in Palestine, instead of rallying for war and financing suicide killings, aimed at destroying Israel and driving Jews into exile, which would further impoverish the local Arabs.